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September 05, 2012

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Iang

Hear hear!

You'll probably be dismissed for mentioning Hitler, but quoting that so-called "Godwin's law" is just a way to shut-up thoughtful people when they bring up consequences too unpleasant for the hoi paloi to think about.

For the rest of the world, it is beyond clear that the financial sector has lost its way and is bankrupt on many levels. The only question is: And, how is this to end? For that reason, we continue to read the financial press, to see signs of the collapse to come.

We do not see any signs of house-cleaning. Maybe you will be pilloried for this dark and traitorous view, but someone has to shake it up, if only so that the rest of society understands that we'll have to rebuild the finance sector at some point.

Society needs finance - but we don't need the current lot of operators.

Paul P

Come on Chris, this is a ridiculous simplification. You can do better than this.
If any comparison can be made with "hacktivism" you'll need to look to the second part of the 19th century, after the steamdriven rotating printing press enabled an information revolution of widely available newspapers and cheap books.

Hitler, like Mussolini, was a keen fan of writers like Gustave Le Bon and Edward Bernays, who basically wrote a manual on how to manipulate large groups of people. This has little to do with anarchist movements such as hacktivism, except for the brilliant twist in which the Fascist Manifesto was able to take all these disparate grassroots movements and aim them towards a nationalist goal. But that is not the case nowadays.

Chris Skinner

'Ridiculous'? 'Simplification'?

Come the revolution Paul, you're first against the wall!!!

Chris

Paul P

LOL.. Well, maybe the cushion wall in psychoward eleven.. Why should i end up against any wall?

I may be wrong, but I can't escape the impression that no hacktivist has ever threatened me, whereas under the guise of protection and security gradually all kinds of liberties are gradually being nibbled away.

I'm not in favour of dumb hacktivism, but someone else's wrong doesn't make me right. Hacktivism is a lot of individuals who cooperate on a per-case basis, it is an anarchist movement and as such have no leader. Assange is not their leader, his activities just fit the with hacktivist view on the world, and as anarchism does not equate to anti-social there is a case in trying to protect him. If there were any sort of leader, i'd look at Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky, not Assange.
Beit is as it may, this is civil liberty in action.. things could be a lot worse.

Chris Skinner

Ha, no worries Paul.

Chomsky's getting a bit old to lead the revolution at 83, and Zinn passed away two years ago so he's not going to be the revolter.

Assange is 41 and is in the right place, right now.

After all, it would take organisation to start a revolution and Assange has big money backers and celeb friends. Start small and soft, gather the collective, get the investment dollars, then start the process.

It's possible. Unlikely I know, but possible.

Watch that space.

Meantime, anarchy is just lawless civil unrest unless it gets a focus, organisation and leadership. That's why someone - whether it's Assange or someone else - will take this mantle and shake it up.

Chris

Paul P

Well, unlike Mussolini he is not receiving checks from MI5 to write newspaper articles that were supposed to deflate the importance of Italian anarcho-syndicalist movements.
Anarchy is simply a decentralized approach, grassroots, or emergent behaviour. It is surprising as for some 60 to 70 years small-scale decentralized socialism were the primary ways of organization.. It lasted until the 1905 Russian revolution that philosophizing journalists started to dream about centralized socialism and such.. but like Marx once said "I am not a Marxist".

Of course, i you read the Fascist Manifesto, it is an incredibly smart trick by which it aims to bundle the natural urge for individual souvereignity and extrapolate its (rather vague) values into a nationalist context. As Gramsci predicted politics was ripe to replace religion.
But that is merely the ideological stance, in a more pragmatic way the whole system was pure corporatism, irrespective of any ideology.

Wars cost money though, and unlike Mussolini i doubt if Assange has the connections to secure a $100 million loan with J.P. Morgan & Co.

If hacktivism is anything like the "self organizing" open source movement.. it simply means that 99% of the initiatives fail, but overall it may simply be several hundreds, maybe a few thousand people. It is surely not a mass movement, and likely with a very high pimple density, and whomever is an activist now is not part of the 20% of people who are highly suggestible and maleable beyond any norm. Considering the at 10% adoption rate most factoids are regarded as "common sense".. it is much more efficient for any leader to concentrate on this suggestible group and apply simple social psychological mechanisms as described in The Lucifer Principle.

Take care
Paul

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